ht, right? have a nice day. [ male announcer ] 80 delicious calories. fiber one. time for one quick e-mail. john tower, what you got? >> we've got steve who writes sitting here in my office in vietnam. just finished my ten hours of work, i'm ready to find a couple of adult beverages at the end of my workday. >> i think that's our first

vietnam e-mail. "morning joe" starts right now. i think there is an issue on the flip-flops as it relates to trust. i don't know that he can go on to beat president obama given his record. i mean, when there is a question about whether you're running for the white house or running for the waffle house, you've got a real problem with the american people. >> you can't be a perfectly lubricated weather vane on the issues of the day, whether it's the debt ceiling, or the bill in ohio where governor romney has been missing in action in terms of showing any kind of leadership. >> i will always put my country first. it seems that governor romney believes in putting politics first. governor romney enjoys firing people, i enjoy creating jobs. >> most likely the person who

should represent our party running against president obama is not someone who called him a remarkable leader and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this nation is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. >> and on the same day he locks up the endorsement of south carolina's biggest newspaper, jon huntsman reveals he is dropping out of the republican race for president. good morning, everyone. it's monday, january 16th, martin luther king jr. day. and with us onset we have mike barnicle, we have the director of the earth institute at columbia university economist dr. jeffrey sachs, and tina brown with a great new cover this week. and in washington, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. welcome to you all. good morning, willie. >> good morning. >> let's get to our top story. jon huntsman expected to make is that formal announcement today

where he'll throw his support behind mitt romney, huntsman has placed a disappointing third in new hampshire's primary last week despite months of nonstop campaigning in the state. let's go right to joe to lead off the conversation. joe, what's your take first of all on huntsman pulling out? >> well, you know, he did -- i wouldn't call 17% disappointing in new hampshire. he needed to do better to move forward. but even if he had gotten in the 20s or second place there, the fact of the matter is, he wasn't going to have the bump he needed to get to south carolina. so jon huntsman, the great irony of this race, i believe is that if you believe the "wall street journal," if you believe red state, if you believe erick erickson, george will, jon huntsman jr. is the most conservative candidate in this republican race. and yet he could never connect with conservatives. all that being said, if i were in jon huntsman's place, i would probably get out today, as well.

because much better that you leave with 17% in new hampshire and you're now known to the party and you can prepare for 2016 than losing in south carolina in single digits, losing in florida with single digits. now seems to be the best time for him to get out of the race. i will just tell you on a personal note, i hate to see it because he is one of the few true conservatives in this race. we are now left with big government conservatives. >> no, i would agree. i thought he would've added to the conversation. but it didn't take off. and willie geist, one of the reasons probably for what happened ultimately was what you were reporting at the end of the very important "way too early." >> yes, ma'am. >> which is that he was being outpolled by "daily show" or "colbert report." >> well, it wasn't going to be pretty in south carolina. we've got the latest ppp poll

shows romney and newt gingrich at the top of the field, 29%, 24%, and you go all the way down the list before you find jon huntsman at 5%. so as joe said, the writing was on the wall. he didn't want to be humiliated in south carolina, mike. and he bows out 11:00 eastern time this morning, he's going to give a press conference where he will throw his support behind the front-runner mitt romney. >> well, he had no money, and clearly his father wasn't going to throw in $5 million or $10 million in the race. the interesting thing to me is watching huntsman's progression since he came back from china. the way the media treated him. he was treated as, oh, this is a fairly liberal republican, a moderate republican. who can take on barack obama and yet huntsman played into that for a few months and then tried to backtrack, no, no, i'm actually the most conservative. it doesn't work. make up your mind. you're either really conservative or you're a moderate republican. and he tried to do both, and i

think he won in neither case. >> and -- >> he seemed liberal because he was mild, but actually politics is such a carnivorous game. and he never was able to show those kind of teeth that you need. >> it was tough coming back from china to figure out the campaign and the time he had. having said that, you could argue they made moves in the beginning that weren't strong enough to show that conservative credential. the american research group poll, joe, has ron paul in third and rick perry in fourth with 9%. but a new poll that's being considered an outlier shows a close three-way race for second place. reuters has ron paul and rick santorum tied at 16%, followed with gingrich at 12%, perry at 6%, and huntsman at 3%. both newt gingrich and rick santorum have one eye on romney -- they're also battling each other, though, knowing each stands a better shot at beating the front runner if the race

boils down to a two-man contest. >> if romney wins here, he has an enormous advantage going forward, which is why i think it's important for every conservative who wants to have a conservative nominee to rally around -- and i'm the one person who has a realistic chance of defeating him. and i hope every conservative will reach the conclusion that to vote for anybody but gingrich is, in fact, to help romney win the nomination and help him win the primary in south carolina. >> we need to get this eventually down to a conservative alternative to mitt romney. and when we get matched up and we believe it'll be us, when we get matched up, and you look at the polls in other states down the road, we match up very well and are ahead of governor romney in almost every one of those state polls. once this field narrows and we get it down to a two-person race, we have an excellent opportunity to win this race. >> what will that look like in south carolina, joe? we had newt gingrich on "meet the press" yesterday.

i was watching a stunning interview because he was making it quite clear in a veiled way that the bain capital story pertaining to mitt romney and what his moral core is about is a very valuable conversation to explore. and he was finding his own way to really jab at mitt romney for what kind of person he is. >> right. >> so bringing it up in a back handed way, still going after him strong. >> it's fascinating. absolutely fascinating. newt launches attack that separates him from not only the conservative base but most of the republican party. and yet, if you put that reuters poll aside, and i would recommend you do because the other two polls are more in line with what i'm hearing from everybody on the ground in south carolina, including people in romney's own team. this is a close race. nobody knows who's going to finish out in front. you have in the pp poll and the american research poll. you have romney in the 20s, gingrich in the 20s, ron paul in

the 20s, santorum not far behind. there's going to be a lot of movement. and one thing that hasn't sunk in from over the weekend was the endorsement of evangelicals of some of the most powerful evangelicals in america of rick santorum. that's going to have a big impact on this race, as well. but, but i just -- i want to go back really quickly to something that tina said about jon huntsman and we'll leave that story behind. again, the great irony is that jon huntsman ideologically if you look at his record from being governor of utah forward, jon huntsman was the most conservative republican, small government conservative in this race bar none. again, the "wall street journal" said it, george will said it. but because he had a moderate temperament, like another guy named ronald reagan, he was not seen as being conservative enough. because he didn't call barack obama a marxist or a fascist or

a socialist. he was somehow deemed unworthy as not hating enough to be a true conservative. if that is how the republican party defines conservative in 2012, then they have turned their backs not only on ronald reagan but also on leaders like jeb bush and mitch daniels. i hate to see him go, but please. this guy was not too liberal to win the nomination, he was more conservative most likely than the ultimate winner of this party's nomination. >> not enough of a hater to win, i think that's right what joss. i do think the bain capital to move to the gingrich /romney aspect, is going to hurt romney tremendously. i mean -- in the end he'll probably get the republican nomination, but it's certainly giving unbelievable fodder to obama when he starts to run. and it's almost like the worst possible thing to happen to a company now is a former executive runs for office.

we saw this with the rose law firm with hillary clinton. you know, you saw this with halliburton. it's almost like it should be a retrospective firing offense to run for public offense. >> there are questions about bain. i've got good must reads looking at exactly what it was. we have to be clear and fair about that and not spill our coffee, dr. sachs -- >> can't take me anywhere. >> i'm going to get to you next. but first -- >> trying to get a little attention here. >> exactly. >> don't worry, it's usually joe who's messy. david axelrod is taking a cue. both of them hammering mitt romney yesterday for his time running the investment firm bayne capital. take a listen. >> the question isn't should he be businessman of the year? the question is, what is his character? what is his judgment? how does that relate to being president? and are there legitimate questions that can be asked that ought to be answered for somebody who wants to be president? people should know it before they vote because the presidency is such a central position in

our society that you want to know what does this person think? what are they doing? and what values would they bring to the oval office? >> the reason that his work at bain is an issue is because governor romney has offered his business experience as his sole credential really for being president of the united states. so it behooves everybody to look at that experience. the truth is, he closed 1,000 or more factories, stores, and offices. he outsourced tens of thousands of jobs. the question is, is that the philosophy that you want in the white house? is that the economic vision for this country? skbrout outsourcing. i don't think that's the future for this country. >> all right. having -- i can't help myself, but it is absolutely -- thank you, barnicle. >> you're welcome. >> absolutely stunning and

beyond to see newt gingrich say these questions are important and he needs to answer them because it tells you something about his moral compass pertaining to business when he would not answer, honestly, questions about lobbying. having said that, are there some legitimate questions about the kind of business mitt romney run that gives us a sense in terms of what his economic vision would be? dr. sachs? >> yes, there are. i don't think it's going to resinate in the republican primaries and i don't think it's going to resinate coming from the historian of fannie mae who took millions for lobbying. but it is going to play in the general election. i think tina's absolutely right. and it's going to play not only because of what bain capital did or didn't do and what romney did, but because he really has taken an extremely conservative ideology into this race. and i think it's an ideology that's going to turn out to be so far to the right of center he's going to have a very hard time scrambling back.

and his personal record will therefore play into this. so i think it's going to count a lot. and i don't think it's going to be a positive for him. >> reverend al, would you agree with that? >> i definitely agree with that. the fact is that david axelrod had it right. he is the one that put out his experience as a businessman, these are the credentials he's running on. he could've easily opted to run based on his record as governor of massachusetts. therefore he makes it fair game for people to use that as the gauge or as the determining factor on what he would be as president. he set the territory, now he's got to live with that. i think that it is probably not beyond laughing that newt gingrich would raise it, but mr. romney has been the one that has made this his platform. and let me also say in the spirit of martin luther king day that i agree with joe for once

on mr. huntsman. i think huntsman is very conservative. but because he had worked for president obama, i think it was very hard for him to convince the republican electorate that he was conservative. and much of this campaign so far for the nomination has been so anti-obama, it's very difficult for someone that had worked for the president and had praised the president to come off as an authentic conservative given the tenner of this crowd. >>

this nation who do you trust the least? big government or big business? big government wins that 3 to 1.

and if this race comes down to a battle between free enterprise as mitt romney would frame it versus barack obama's big government, mitt romney wins that fight every time. there are a lot of inherent dangers here that democrats don't see. because of their ideological preconditions. and whether they are fair or not, i'm just saying, this is a dangerous path to tread. and if mitt romney knows how to bat it away, it ends up working for him in the long run. >> willie? >> and as the epa concludes, it's cleanup of your spill here. rivaling what bp did in the gulf. two questions, number one, you're shaking your head when you hear what joe is saying. and you say mitt romney's bringing extreme conservatism into this race. what did you mean by that? >> well, i notice no one has dared to put another cup of coffee anywhere near me. >> you're done for the day. you're done for the day. >> but i think, joe, what the

polls show, at least the ones i've seen is that -- americans like small business but don't like big business and they don't like wall street, and they're going to be associating mitt romney with wall street and with big business. this is where his backing is. it's in the financial sector. and i don't think 2012's going to shake up to be the year of pro-business, pro-free market as you said. i don't think that's where people are. >> no. >> people are worried, they're anxious, unemployed -- >> and by the way, angry too. >> and they don't like what they saw on wall street, and that's where mitt romney's going to be seen to be. and so i don't think it's going to play all that well. >> but jeffrey, again, if you just look, jeffrey, about how this campaign's going to shake out. at the end of the day, you're going to have barack obama probably standing next to mitt romney. and mitt romney's going to turn to barack obama if unemployment's at 8.5%, 9%, and he's going to say, you know what? everything's gotten worse since

you've gotten here. unemployment's gotten worse, job hiring's gotten worse, everything's gotten worse, and what you've been doing for three years is focusing on big government. a big bailout of wall street, a big bailout of the auto industry, a big stimulus package bailout, another big trillion dollar stimulus bill, et cetera, et cetera. and then he's going to turn to barack obama and say big government doesn't work. and then at that point, barack obama could attack him for what he did for bain capital for 10, 15, 20 years ago, but i'll guarantee you, but independents and swing voters are going to go what? let's talk about the past three years. >> but joe, i think obama will turn back to him and say you have endorsed the ryan plan. you want to slash medicare, you want to go after the protections american people need. who is going to carry you through more safely over the next few years? it'll be a real debate, but i don't think it's going to be about bain capital in that

sense. >> exactly. >> but i think it's going to be about romney's very to the right ideology that he has staked out in the primaries and he's going to have a very hard time coming back to the center. >> reverend al, real quick, go ahead. >> i think that what we also have to deal with is that mr. romney has said he was a job creator in bain. and i think president obama can stand at a debate that joe lays out and talk about the private sector jobs that have increased every month since he's been president. and ask mr. romney, where are these 100,000 jobs you claim at bain? what did you do about the job creation when you were governor of massachusetts? i think what mr. romney will be haunted with is his own words. when he has said he's done, will he will be able to prove them? and the president has a record in terms of jobs. despite the fact we have high unemployment, there has been a

continual addition of jobs that he's had to fight for the jobs program against the republican house that has stopped his jobs program. i think he wins that debate. >> all right. joe? >> and maybe -- maybe he does, mika, but my bigger point and really jeffrey, i think touched on a few other issues that will be front and center, medicare. the ryan plan, these sort of issues, this social safety net. will mitt romney tear it up? a tax plan that favors the rich instead of the poor, et cetera, et cetera. those arguments will make a lot more sense than say an argument against bain capital and free enterprise. that's a losing argument at the end. >> okay. >> and for the record, some coffee spilled on the other side of the table. >> it's unbelievable. >> there's something going on around this table. >> i'm under assault. mika from the right, sachs from the left. >> everybody's spilling their drinks all over the place like a bunch of drunks, but willie, i

can't believe we've got this far into "morning joe" and have not talked about the new york giants' remarkable victory last night. >> i know. >> good job with that. >> too busy dodging frappachino. we're going to share those highlights later. huge win for the giants. we also have really good stuff from elizabeth warren coming up. coming up, all the big moments from last night's "golden globe awards" including the return of ricky gervais as host. also, suze orman is here, ted koppel, and john ridley. up next, mike allen with the politico playbook. but first, bill karins on the forecast. good morning, everyone. i'm sure they're not the only ones with the coffee this morning. maybe a little hot cocoa in new england. yesterday was brutal, today will be a little bit better. still very cold northern new england. 5 in hartford, albany, 2, windchills in the negative

numbers. today we'll recover a little bit, 20s and 30s. no rain or snow during the daylight hours today. but later on tonight, we've got snow changing over to sleet and freezing rain. areas outside of new york city, philadelphia, hartford, up toward albany. tomorrow morning will be a tough commute there. the rest of the country, memphis, little rock, and kansas city, and look out the pacific northwest, even seattle with a chance of significant snows tuesday into wednesday. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. is it fast?

it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪ i'm rewe named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. took this last minute trip! you booked our room right? not yet, thanks for reminding me. wait, what? i have the hotels.com app so we can get a great deal even at the last minute. ah, well played sir. get the app. hotels.com. so i'm glad it's with fidelity. they offer me one-on-one guidance to help me choose my investments. not just with my savings plan here at work.

they help me with all of my financial goals. looking good, irene. thanks to fidelity, i can stay on top of my financial future, huh? good one. why, thank you. whether it's saving for retirement, college, or anything else, contact a fidelity investment professional today.

26 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers, and we will start with "usa today" which

says thousands of handwritten notes and documents from martin luther king jr. will be available online for the first time today. among the documents being made public, a handwritten draft of mlk's acceptance speech for the 1964 nobel peace prize. as is a typewritten draft of his "i have a dream" speech. the archive can be found at the kingcenter.org. and let's go to reverend al. you're in d.c. this morning for the national action network's annual king day breakfast. >> yes, we're having the king day breakfast this morning, we do every year in washington. and i'm also speaking at the wreath laying ceremony at the monument, and fly back to new york to our annual day at our national headquarters where the mayor and others come out. i think it's a great day. clearly this is the first year we've had the monument on the mall dedicated to dr. king. and those of us that come out of that tradition. i actually joined his organization as youth director in new york the year he was killed.

it's a proud day to see his monument stand there in washington on the banks of the potomac as we celebrate this federal holiday that his wife led the nation in trying to achieve. many called him all kinds of names to achieve that holiday was unthinkable, and now to have the holiday and the monument, it stands as a beacon of light to people who believe in civil and human rights. >> 26 years now we've been celebrating that holiday. ref rend sharpton in d.c. today. thanks, reverend sharpton. the captain of a cruiseship was "showing off" when he steered the vessel too close to land. it happened off the coast of italy. at least six people are dead, 16 more are missing. the captain of the ship accused of abandoning the ship before everyone was safely evacuated. those pictures are just astounding when you look at it. you see that gash in the left

side. still looking for 16 peoples. >> you see the crews leaping into the lifeboats -- what a shock. >> yeah. look -- >> some of the american passengers said -- you fall back on this, but you said it was like the film titanic. people were running up trying to get away from the water. >> you know that whole thing, it was justing a nightmare. >> too much. holding out hope for the 16 still missing there. for now, we turn to "politico," mike allen has a look at the playbook. mike, good morning. >> good morning, willie. and i'm keeping all liquids out of my wingspan. >> please do. keep them away from us. big story, of course, jon huntsman leaving the race. he's got a news conference this morning to announce that he's going to support mitt romney. and you and "politico" have new detail. what can you tell us? >> the big decision for the campaign was do you do it after saturday's primary in south carolina or before? and there were a few factors

that caused them to go ahead and do it sooner. one of them was you don't want to finish behind "stephen koste colbert. and they also expect that rick perry will get out after saturday. so they figured governor huntsman would be able to control more of the message if he did it now than if he became just another dropout. this was a big disappointment to the staff. it'd just gotten the endorsement of the largest newspaper in the state on sunday. and the staff, several advisers urged him to stay in, see what happens. that's the one thing we know about this race is you never know, but the family decided to go ahead and do it now. this is also indication that governor huntsman's father, jon huntsman sr. had closed his pocketbook, that the super pac was not going to have some big gusher of cash that might change this race. >> quickly before we go, i asked mark haleprin on "way too

early," if you're writing the obitua obituary to the huntsman campaign, what happened? >> well, he was way too early. he probably would have been better in 2016. one of the big reasons he ran was to be strong in 2016. now he's probably diminished. it'll depend in what he does the next four years. what he did wrong this time, no clear message. started out as the moderate, tried to become the conservative. was never sure, neither were the voters. >> less diminished now than he would have been on sunday. >> good point. >> thanks so much. coming up, joe mentioned it, eli manning, the defense shutting down aaron rodjers at lambeau. we'll have highlights from green bay when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪

♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. there's an insurance company that does that, too.

liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? ♪ you are me i'm jennifer hudson, and i believe. i was strong before weight watchers, but i'm stronger with it. i believe weight watchers can do the same for you. i believe you have more power than you think you do. i believe because it works. ♪ if you want it, you got it your turn. your time. your year. join for free. weight watchers points plus 2012. because it works. weight watchers points plus 2012. when bp made a commitment to the gulf, we knew it would take time, but we were determined to see it through. today, while our work continues, i want to update you on the progress: bp has set aside 20 billion dollars to fund economic and environmental recovery. we're paying for all spill- related clean-up costs. and we've established a 500 million dollar fund so independent scientists can study the gulf's wildlife and environment for ten years.

thousands of environmental samples from across the gulf have been analyzed by independent labs under the direction of the us coast guard. i'm glad to report all beaches and waters are open for everyone to enjoy. and the economy is showing progress with many areas on the gulf coast having their best tourism seasons in years. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp. we're committed to the gulf for everyone who loves it, and everyone who calls it home.

we've buried the lead this morning. packers/giants yesterday at lambeau. nfl playoffs, the giants doing it again to the packers. getting them on their home field on that sacred turf of lambeau.

a rematch. remember, giants beat them in 2007 before going on to beat the undefeated patriots in the super bowl. so yesterday at lambeau, giants off to a hot start, eli manning watch him bounce off tacklers, spin, and then he's gone in the end zone. 66 yards for the touchdown, giants open up a seven-point lead in the first quarter. end of the second half, got out of bounds, gave manning a chance to throw this heave into the end zone with no time left on the clock and coming down with it. brings it down. that grab, the giants take a ten-point lead into the locker room. and in the second half, came down to turnovers, packers/giants territory, giants recover in the fourth. giants again, grant catches a short pass, but the ball comes out, chase blackburn gets up, scoops it, takes it down to the

4 yard line, giants force three fumbles, that led to this, manning, hits him in the back of the end zone for the touchdown, manning throws 330 yards, three touchdowns, aaron rodgers, sacked four times, bunch of drops by his receivers, as well. green bay handed the first home loss of the season. giants win easily, believe it or not, 37-20, and they march on to san francisco. mike, ely was great yesterday, but that defense. >> packers can't play defense, they can't tackle, and there were two -- at least two terrible calls. they went against the giants. >> against the giants. the other game yesterday, texans and ravens, baltimore's "d" was the story. ravens up seven points, just two minutes to go. and a seven-point game. if that had landed, it would tie the game, but ed reid comes with the big interception. seals the win for the ravens. they win it 2013.

they move into the afc championship game. if you missed it on saturday, everybody was talking about the tebow against the patriots. the game of the day was the saints and the 9ers, saints up one with 2:15 to play. 28 yards, nice block there for the touchdown. a five-point lead on a missed two-point conversion, drew brees gets the ball back, he hits jimmy graham over the middle and he's gone. 66 yards for the touchdown. saints converted two-point conversion today, three-point lead, but leaving 1:37 on the clock for the 9ers, one last chance for san francisco. and smith drives his team down to new orleans' 14-yard-line. with time expiring here, 10 seconds left in the game, what a catch, what a throw, vernon davis for the touchdown. 180 receiving yards and two touchdowns, him running off the

field in tears right there. he spent his entire six-year career on the 49ers. he was overcome by emotion for the hard work. they came back and stole one back from the saints, san francisco moves on, they win 36-32. here's the playoff picture. patriots as i said beat up tebow mania ended officially on saturday night. they host the ravens on sunday afternoon and as i said, the giants go to san francisco where they'll play on sunday night for the right to play in the super bowl. and we will be right back here with mika's must-read opinion pages. keep it here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] feeling like a shadow of your former self?

c'mon, michael! get in the game! [ male announcer ] don't have the hops for hoops with your buddies? lost your appetite for romance? and your mood is on its way down. you might not just be getting older. you might have a treatable condition called low testosterone or low t. millions of men, forty-five or older, may have low t. so talk to your doctor about low t. hey, michael! [ male announcer ] and step out of the shadows. hi! how are you? [ male announcer ] learn more at isitlowt.com. [ laughs ] hey! ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪

[ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪

♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. like so many great pioneers before me, guided only by a dream. i'm embarking on a journey of epic proportion. i will travel, from sea to shining sea, through amber waves of grain, and i won't stop until i've helped every driver in america save hundreds on car insurance. well i'm out of the parking lot. that's a good start. geico, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent, or more on car insurance. ♪ president obama wants to put

free enterprise on trial. and in the last few days, we've seen some desperate republicans join forces with him. this is such a mistake for our party, and for our nation. the country already has a leader who divides us with the bitter politics of envy. we have to offer an alternative vision. >> a couple of lines in that speech really got some traction and certainly made us raise our eyebrows as we were watching it. and you've got a little bit of a response now from the liberal end of things. an argument from elizabeth warren to take on mitt romney's defense of his success at bain capital. charles writes this in part. you're just jealous. at least that's how mitt romney sees it. the millionaire who posed for a picture with the boys at bain capital now says that people who questioned what he did there and what rich people do now are just green with envy.

this has nothing to do with envenvy and everything to do with fairness. elizabeth warren probably rebuts this myth best by reframing the discussion in terms of a social contract. we create in a society which -- in which smart, hard working people can be safe and prosper and they in turn reinvest a fair share of that prosperity back into society. but somewhere along the way this got lost. greed got good. the rich wanted all of the societal benefits and none of the societal responsibilities. they got addicted to seeing profits go up and taxes go down by any means necessary no matter the damage to the individual or the collective. and we actually did some research, and we got more on elizabeth warren. she said this. and broke down that social contract that we're talking about at a campaign event recently. take a look. >> there is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. nobody. you built a factory out there, good for you. but i want to be clear.

you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. you built a factory, and it turned into something terrific or a great idea. god bless, keep a big hunk of it. but part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid. >> okay. so let's go around the table. a lot of folks are looking at bain and how business was done there. did mitt romney's way, dr. sachs, of doing business at bain break that contract in any way? >> i think where romney's going to have to back pedal by calling what we have the free market. we just watched wall street get bailed out by trillions of dollars. we watched them recklessly

gamble, break the law repeatedly. we watch them now being hauled into court by the securities and exchange commission for selling toxic, fraudulent securities, and then he calls this the free market. so i don't think that's going to play. i think that's his big problem. he's out of touch with how most of america right now is seeing the game that has led to all of these inequalities. >> mike barnicle, and take it to reverend al if you could. but looking -- i'm following elizabeth warren's campaign. i was talking to her yesterday and i think she does play into the narrative that could ultimately on a much bigger level and the presidential level hurt mitt romney. and is there -- is there kind of a parallel between the narrative that she's weaving and the one that's being woven against mitt romney? >> well, i think romney's quote that president obama is banking on the bitter politics of envy is flat out wrong. i mean, it's wrong.

what i don't think he and i think a lot of politicians don't understand the country they're running to represent. people don't resent your wealth. it's the absence of money in people's minds that count. they don't resent the fact that someone's rich, someone has gotten rich. they just want fairness at the end of the day. >> they do, tina, and then reverend al. >> well, i think what's incredible about this race is it took someone as verbal as rick perry to come up with that amazing catch phrase, flesh eating vultures. i don't think they associate the wall street crowd with business in that sense. entrepreneur who built -- and created, you know -- >> financial games. >> exactly. financial games. and i think a lot of people have been laid off from those financial games. they know when those corporations take over their

countries. >> this is what ross writes about this. but neither was romney the henry ford-esque job creator he's tried to play on the campaign trail. he served his investors not his employees and his goal was to make an uncompetitive company competitive even if that required cutting paychecks and shuttering plants along the way. what's more, bain found a way to reap profits even when the overhaul failed and the company went belly up. keeping america's edge came at a cost. our economy became more efficient, but also more ruthless and darwinian. our gdp kept rising, but the new wealth was less evenly distributed. the revolution delivered growth but at the expense of stability and certainty. and for many americans, even the modest net impact of private equity buyouts cost them a solid good-paying job. >> mitt romney's been trying to defend himself on this for a couple of weeks and months, in fact. has he come up with -- to an

independent voter, a satisfying explanation for what exactly he did at bain capital? >> no, i don't think he has. and i think that when you look at the fact that we did a story on politics nation friday, where bain capital got government money. and some of the companies they dealt with got government money. so i think that as the story continues to unwind, he's going to have more to explain. but i think where he did himself a disservice and we dealt with it the minute he said it on that set was the whole politics of envy. it's one thing to explain why you made all this money, it's another thing to act like the people that are fighting for their right for collective bargaining in ohio or wisconsin or people that just want fairness are just jealous of you. that is adding insult to injury. and i think that's going to be very damaging. >> dr. sachs, there is a distinction, though, to the guys that made the exotic credit default swaps and all the rest of it. >> absolutely.

>> and what mitt romney did at bain capital, which is in many cases rescue companies that were about to go under. >> i think it'll be more complicated than that, willie because private equity sometimes closes down businesses to grab some of the assets for these private equity investors. so we're going to find out a lot about what happened in these companies, but it's not just rescuing companies. a lot of them failed but for the benefit of those private equity holders, maybe against the interest of the bondholders, for example. >> okay. we will continue this conversation. coming up, though, some news you can't use. did ricky gervais live up to his own hype and offend everyone in the audience of the golden globes last night? did he? did he? news you can't use is next. i'm al ways looking out for i'm al small ways to be more healthy. like splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweeteners. this bowl of strawberries is loaded with vitamin c. and now, b vitamins to boot.

coffee doesn't have fiber. unless you want it to. splenda® essentials™ are the first and only line of sweeteners with a small boost of fiber, or antioxidants, or b vitamins in every packet. mmm. same great taste with an added "way to go, me" feeling. splenda® essentials™. get more out of what you put in. the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams.

it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪ you can make a difference. ♪ i give new generations better opportunities. ♪ i protect the lives that make up my community.

♪ i'm discovering ways to improve our quality of life. [ male announcer ] history made its mark. make yours. at&t continues to support the spirit of individuals making a difference with at&t 28 days get involved today. ♪

oh, wow, is it time? >> it is time for news you can't use. last night's golden globe awards. >> did you watch? >> no, some, back and forth. no. >> i love your honesty. it's the first night of hollywood's long season of self-congratulations and first the winners. "the descendents," best motion picture comedy "the artist." best actress in a drama meryl streep won for her portrayal as margaret thatcher. best actor -- >> she's unbelievable. >> she's tremendous. she's tremendous. >> she's going to win the oscar,

right? she'll walk away with it? >> i think she will. >> george clooney won for "the descendents." best actress musical or comedy michelle williams who played marilyn monroe in "my week with marilyn." director martin scorsese. madonna won one for -- it was a star studded affair. abc's "modern family," by the way, great show, won best series comedy on television. >> that's fun. but most of the talk was about that gentleman right there. >> how did he do? was he -- >> there was a lot of hype. about how ruthless he was going to be last night. we'll let you judge. >> so where was i? nervous? don't be. this isn't about you. the golden globes are to the oscars what kim kardashian is to

kate middleton. what? now, the hollywood foreign press have warned me if i insult any of you or any of them or cause any controversy whatsoever, they'll definitely invite me back next year as well. they actually gave me a list of rules. i'm going to ignore them, but i thought it'd be good to read them out. this is real. okay? no profanity, that's fine, i've got a huge vocabulary. and i mustn't mention mel gibson this year. ready? >> i guess so. >> have you seen "the tourist" yet? keep your speeches short. thank everyone you've ever met or members of your family that have done nothing towards this. just do the main two. your agent and god because in my opinion i know for a fact that

both god and my agent had exactly the same amount of input in my career. you're so much better than last year's audience. no, they had a right stick up their [ bleep ]. good. >> okay. >> i taped it. >> i thought he was -- >> i'm so happy about "the artist." that movie is so joyful and speaks to so much about our times. >> there we go. i need to go to a movie -- >> we need to start going to the movies. >> meryl, i'll see that. >> she's incredible. kelsey grammer won for "the boss." >> and "homeland." >> i like "modern family." i've seen that. good show. our friend suze orman returns to "morning joe." also john ridley joins the conversation. keep it on "morning joe."

♪[music plays] ♪[music plays] when you're responsible for this much of the team... you need a car you can count on. ♪[music plays] hey, aren't you supposed to be following that fidelity green line? well, yeah, but it keeps leading me back to my old office. i think it might be broken. or maybe it's trying to tell you something. yeah, but what could it be try-- oh, i left my 401(k) at my old job.

and i left a jacket on the back of my door. but i think the line's talking about my 401(k). leave a 401(k) behind? roll it over with a company that's helping more people reach retirement than anyone else. call or come in for a free portfolio review today. i'm going to own my own restaurant. i want to be a volunteer firefighter. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there. i want to fix up old houses. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. i want to fall in love again. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday.

-three. -one. two. three. one. -two. -three. -one. -two. -three. [ male announcer ] with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card, earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. 2% back on groceries. and 3% back on gas. automatically. no hoops to jump through. -it's as easy as...1. -two. -three. [ male announcer ] 1, 2, 3 percent cash back for the things you buy most. the bankamericard cash rewards card. apply online or at a bank of america near you.

if romney wins here, he has an enormous advantage going forward, which is why i think it's important for every conservative who wants to have a conservative nominee to rally around and i'm the one person who has a realistic chance of defeating him here. and i hope every conservative will reach the conclusion that to vote for anybody but gingrich is, in fact, to help romney win the nomination and to help him win the primary in south carolina. >> we need to get this eventually down to a

conservative alternative to mitt romney. and those two -- when we finally get matched up and we believe it'll be us, when we get matched up. if you look at some of the polls that have been done in other states down the road, we match up very well and are ahead of governor romney in almost every one of those state polls. we feel once we get it down to a two-person race we have an excellent opportunity to win this race. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at the sun coming up. mike barnicle and dr. jeffrey sachs are still with us. joining us now, we have the host of the "suze orman show," and the oprah winfrey network's america's money class suze orman. and she's also author of "the money class." we'll talk about that and the it's not really a credit card. >> it's a prepaid card. >> a little controversial, beuti

like what you're trying to do here. also with us from los angeles, we have screen writer and founder from the website thatminoritything.com, john ridley with us this morning. how are you? >> good morning, how are you? >> good to have you on. joe, you've been listening to the conversation. i didn't include you in must reads. did you think there was a conspiracy? >> well, i let you guys have your little bash-free enterprise and little resentment party, that's fine. that's fine. it's exciting that we've brought john ridley on because a big hollywood guy, he is the 1%. >> yeah. >> he could buy and sell all of us ten times over. john, i want to bring you into the conversation. we've got a lot of news to talk about. but before we do, there's a big question of whether this bain capital argument is going to work moving into this summer into the fall. despite my own mixed feelings about wall street and the growing disparity we talk about

between rich and poor, i just think tactically democrats may be making a big mistake thinking that somehow this campaign's going to be about what mitt romney did at bain capital 15 years ago instead of what barack obama's done over the past three years. >> well, i certainly think that the bain capital, at the very least, the democrats got to see whether bain was going to stick to the wall so to speak now, which is to their advantage as opposed to having to roll it out in october and november and finding out it doesn't work whatsoever. i do think having republicans use the bain capital has really made the field look all that more unformatted and just discombobulated. you have conservatives going after conservative issue. and by the way, not even using it very well. i thought they were able to attack perry, rick perry a little bit better on the texas miracle and what he did down there. whether he did it through big jobs or small jobs or government help. but bain, they just didn't seem to quite know what the narrative

for their own attack ad were supposed to be. >> it's unbelievable. it's just one more example of how this republican field, mika, has been a red hot mess from the very beginning. and it's not ideologically consistent. you hear people talking, mika, all the time about how oh, this is the most conservative republican field. no it's not. it's not even close to the most conservative republican field in a long time because you've got rick perry sounding like an occupy wall street member. you've got newt gingrich who attacked the ryan plan and did a lot of other things. you had mitt romney who created the individual mandate that barack obama used for his health care plan. the only true conservative over the course of his career got out of the race and that's jon huntsman. there's a difference, mainstream media and republican base, between conservative and shrill.

ronald reagan was conservative, jeb bush, conservative. just because these candidates that attack barack obama are shrill does not make them conservative and sadly that is something that this party hasn't figured out quite yet. >> well, crazy doesn't win. there's a difference between conservative and clown-like, and this field certainly hasn't made that differentiation very clear. i've always been confused by your party. it does seem very convoluted right now, and the loss of jon huntsman. >> well, thank -- if only, mike barnicle, my party could be as organized as the democratic party has been over the past 30 or 40 years. come on. they're all crazy. the fact of the matter is, mike, this year is the first year that republicans have not been as orderly as let's say in the past where -- where the republican party nomination process is always like this -- hold on, hold on, i haven't seen you in

the club yet. you get to the back of the line, and you lose and your time will come and we'll let you win. that may still happen with mitt romney, mike. but if you look at some new polls out in south carolina, this race isn't over. and i've got to tell you, the romney people know it, the gingrich people know it, and the santorum people know it. in south carolina, they're clustered at the top in the 20s. >> well, joe, you put your finger on part of the republican problem, i think. you were talking about shrillness. jon huntsman was not shrill, and yet the republican party is for lack of anything else going on for a long while this primary season, the face of the republican party was newt gingrich who called the president of the united states the food stamp president. which, you know, i don't think that goes down well over the long haul. but that's who they were and that's apparently the reason -- one of the reasons why huntsman is no longer in the race. >> huntsman will have an

announcement today. >> there's this 99% versus 1% thing in the air. we've been talking about putting free enterprise on trial. you talk to people every day on your show, out in the country, where are people's heads right now? how are they feeling? >> i have to tell you, joe, i disagree with you a little bit. when people hear wall street, not the people necessarily that are watching morning joe and watching the politico and everything, but every day normal people, you say the word wall street and they jump on this and they hate you. they don't even know why. and this was fueled by if whole thing with bank of america when they were going to put $5 for some services. and all america jumped on this. so all you have to do is align yourself with bain capital, the wall street and any of those things and i'm telling you every day people who don't understand any of it will go the other way. that's what i think. >> they feel a distrust. >> total distrust and they

should feel a distrust because what happened on wall street, what happened there is why they don't have a home, they don't have equity. all these things led to the middle america disappearing. and they are feeling it. and when you feel something, i don't know, joe, it just doesn't work that way. >> wait, wait, listen. there's an argument to make. if the romney people are smart enough to make this attack over the next six months on the free market and free enterprise and say, sure, things are messy, but that's the nature of free enterprise, they win that argument. but i've got to say, backing you up would be a number of polls that mika will take us through in a minute that actually show that newt gingrich after savaging mitt romney on bain capital is actually a strong second place right now and could win the south carolina primary despite the fact he has been absolutely ripped to shreds by

the conservative base for his attacks on bain capital and mitt romney. so maybe it works even in the republican party in south carolina. >> well, let's take a look at south carolina right now. the latest public policy polling showing mitt romney and newt gingrich topping the field in south carolina with 29% and 24%. ron paul in third place with 15%, followed by rick santorum with 14%, jon huntsman was just getting 5% of the vote dropping out before that came to pass. and american research group poll also has romney and gingrich on top. ron paul in third with 20%, and rick perry in fourth with just 9%. a new poll that's being considered an outlier shows a close three-way race for second place. reuters has ron paul and rick santorum tied at 16% followed by gingrich with 12%, rick perry with 6%, and huntsman with 3%. so there's this focus on bain capital and mitt romney.

his rivals, joe, are going after him and really trying to chip away at the narrative that he may not be good in terms of economic vision. all playing into the big game, isn't it? >> it is playing into the big game. i've got to say, that poll, the last poll that you said that's a new poll actually was in the field the same day the other two polls were in the field too. so we have some widely divergent polls here. one that shows mitt romney way ahead. that is an outlier because they actually doesn't even line up with romney's team and gingrich's team and perry's team are telling me off the record. that actually this race is much closer than that last poll shows. so no, listen, i think at the end of the day, bain capital's going to be one part of the story. the massachusetts record is going to be one part of the story, the olympics is going to be one part of the story. at the end of the day, mitt romney's going to be judged on his vision forward. where is he going to take

america over the next four years if he wins the nomination? and it'll be the same thing with barack obama. can barack obama justify where we've been the last four years? and does he have a vision to take us moving forward? again, i could be dead wrong here, i just don't know that the bain capital attacks are going to stick going through this primary and into the fall. >> well, isn't the question going to be, dr. sachs, and suze, we can weave in the concept of your book. who can help bailout or lift up or give that sense of mobility back to the middle class again? >> i think the middle class story is going to be a big story. and i think it's ironic, by the way, that wall street infiltrating both parties. wall street funds both parties, let's be clear about it. but i do think that romney's going to be the face of wall street in this campaign or he's going to be made the face of wall street. and i don't think that's going to play very well for the reasons that suze has said.

it's going to be a matter partly of looking back at the record because the last four years have -- or 3 1/2 years have not been spectacular. but it's also going to be this insecurity looking forward. and my feeling is that romney's really put himself far to the right on that story by buying into an extremely conservative approach looking forward. and i don't think the american people are going to buy a big attack on entitlements right now. but that's what he's going to try to sell them. >> there's another story weaving through this from mike barnicle's home state and that is massachusetts and elizabeth warren who i spoke to yesterday about the consumer financial protection bureau and what the outlook for that is and also her campaign which is really getting traction in massachusetts. they're kicking off some big fund raising thing this week. but she's getting received incredibly by audiences. and no matter what you think of her, she is fitting the mold in terms of what massachusetts is looking for.

scott brown is a strong candidate, as well. here's what she said, suze, a few months ago about how washington changed the rules on debt. take a listen. >> for 50 years as america's working families got richer, america in turn got richer and stronger. that was how it worked. and then we hit part of the '70s and accelerated into the '80s and changed our course. the share of workers represented by unions declined. wages went flat, congress very quietly with no public debate changed the rules. they made it easier for credit card companies, for mortgages, for student lenders to put tricks and traps in the fine print and to get families tangled up. >> okay. so the money class, suze orman's new book. what do people need to know about the rules and debt and their own rules they should make

for themselves? >> i think they need to listen to elizabeth warren. i'm actually sorry she wasn't pointed head of the cfpb. and i'm a big supporter of hers. and it's true, what used to be, no longer works today. do you understand, everybody, that there's 150 million people in the united states of america today according to the 2011 census bureau that are either in poverty or near poverty. that means 1 out of every 2 people are in poverty or near poverty today. and once you are in poverty, there is no way currently to get out. so you have to be able to control what the credit people have done, the banks have done, they're all feeding off of these people and they really have had a bad effect on them. >> you know, suze, i don't disagree with you in much of what you say and i certainly don't disagree with elizabeth warren and much of what she said. but she's talking about what the congress has done and we should listen to what has happened over the last 15 years.

how about listening to how our parents raised us and how our grandparents raise them. how about listening to you can't spend what you don't have. that you can't create your own credit card society around the kitchen table. you can't -- you might not need the big screen tv. >> -- that they can. >> i'll tell you why. because if you put a little kid, they go out trick-or-treating, they get all of this candy and then you take that candy away from them, they cry, they throw a fit -- >> send them to their room and let them cry. >> oh, my. >> the credit -- we shouldn't have given people rope to hang themselves with. we don't educate them, they have no idea how anything works, the financial illiteracy in the country is absolutely absurd. >> there's no doubt about that. >> or they make the wrong choices, so you help people, you don't let kids drive when they're 3. you don't let people vote until they can. go on, jeff, i know you're going

to back me on this one. >> 100%. but i think it's not only the traps that people got into. but starting in the 1980s with the financial deregulation, you opened up the massive torrent of fraud. and fraud is what people really feel right now. there was the savings and loan debacle and crisis, massive fraud. there was the sub-prime mortgage massive fraud. the big boys knew what they were doing and they have been deregulated in a way that they could make an incredible amount of money and then get bailed out at the end. and it's that fraud that i think really is rotting at the core right now that the -- >> yeah. >> the sentiments that suze is feeling across the country. >> joe, jump in. >> well, i just -- i keep hearing about all of the problems being big businesses and big banks. and yes, there has been fraud. but we're sitting here ignoring what is going on all around us. we have historical trends that

are exploding in our faces. you look this past weekend, look what happened on friday. france downgraded because of massive debt. eight other countries in europe, downgraded because of massive debt. our federal government keeps getting bigger by the year. and we keep sitting here scratching our heads going, well, what are we doing? why are more and more people going into poverty. it must be big business's fault. the federal government keeps growing by the year. the debt keeps growing. when democrats are in power, the federal government gets bigger, and debt gets bigger. when republicans are in, when democrats are in, it gets bigger. and i hear dr. sachs saying all morning about mitt romney's right-wing radical plan. that's a bunch of bunk. it is bunk. mitt romney doesn't have a conservative plan. if he did, i would already be onboard with him. but he's going to be a big-government republican who is going to follow a big-government democrat who followed a

big-government republican in george w. bush. come on, we have to break this trend. and -- and it's been going on for 30, 40 years. the government just keeps getting bigger. and our debt keeps getting bigger. crowding out takes place, and we just sit here trying to blame big business. that's not going to sell with middle americans moving forward because -- >> all right. >> it's about big government that dr. sachs you don't want to talk about. >> joe, i'll let mitt fight that one out because he's going to have a hard time defending the cuts in medicare and so on that he's going to be propelling. but -- >> cuts in medicare. hold on a second. >> yeah, but -- let me mention something. yesterday there was an interesting -- >> cuts in medicare? >> yes, that's what he signed on to when he signed on to the ryan plan. >> there won't be cuts in medicare -- >> joe, there was a really interesting map yesterday in the

"new york times" about who the 1% are. and the 1% are the ceos. the 1% are the doctors who are making absolutely a fortune. the 1% are the financiers. they're the ones that have gamed the government. medicare and health care is so expensive because we have the most expensive private health insurance in the whole world. and the doctors, you know, that make millions on their specialties are the recipients of that. that's what the map showed. so we have a lot of powerful interests that have gamed the federal government. and the middle class and the working class and the poor don't want to pay for that, they want to end the games. i think that's where this talk about free market will fall absolutely flat. no one believes this is a free market. people believe this is a rigged market. >> it is a rigged market. and i agree it's a rigged market. i agree it's a rigged market. and i've talked about it day in and day out.

while we talk about big business, when are we going to talk about big government, when are we going to talk about what's happened in france, italy, greece, california, what's going to happen in new york state? we are sitting here blind to historical trends that are showing up in the front pages of our newspapers every day. and yet no republican or democrat will step out and tell us how they're going to save us by slowing down the massive rate of growth in the federal government. and here you have mitt romney blandly putting his arms around the paul ryan plan. and here you are demagoguing, jeff sachs. >> no, joe -- not. >> you know that's never going to happen. demagoguing, jeffrey. >> i'm just saying what romney did. that's what he endorsed. don't make -- don't put it on me. mitt's going to have to answer for that. >> i am putting it on you. what is your plan -- no, listen, we're talking about something very serious here. >> of course. >> this country is going

bankrupt if we don't slow down the growth of our entitlements and don't figure out to get more revenue -- and if we don't cut defense spending over the next generation. >> joe -- >> and any time someone goes to talk about medicare or medicaid, you say go after the doctors. that's not going to work, jeff. it didn't work in '93, it won't work now. >> let's start at a point we can agree on on martin luther king day, let's get out of afghanistan -- >> agreed. >> get out of vietnam, it's a waste of money, we're spending a fortune, blood, money. >> agree. >> this is how we can start saving tremendously. second, let's cut this reckless rampant cost of our health care. that's not because of medicare. medicare's a tiny part of the 17% of our national income paid on health. it's because we have the most expensive private health care because we got monopolies of the ama and others. >> you just used medicare and the word tiny next to each

other. that's not accurate. >> joe, let's get the banks to start paying up because they haven't paid up. they've taken our money, now it's time for them to pay taxes, let's have a financial transactions tax finally. let's get these banks to start paying -- and let's finally get these hedge funds to start paying income. because they're the billionaires and they're walking away with everything and they don't pay taxes. >> all right. >> well, i agree -- hold on, i agree we need to get out of afghanistan, i agree we need to figure out a way to have tax reform to make the super wealthy pay their taxes like warren buffett. i agree with that. and huge corporations. but don't ever use the word tiny next to the word medicare. because medicare and medicaid are the two great challenges to this country over the next generation. we either figure out a way to slow down that rapid rate of growth or we're bankrupt. it's simple. this is math. it's not ideology, it's math. >> i'm going to do some math

now. we need to wrap up this segment because we have a lot to get to. dr. sachs you had a trip to ghana with bono. and your prepaid cards plays into this conversation, as well. a new week of campaigning kicks off. also in south carolina, we're going to talk about the battle of the super pacs with nbc's ted koppel and luke russert. up next, dr. ezekiel emanuel joins us on his push to put the law into perspective. >> ridley's got a huge movie out right now. >> we've got to get to that. >> and we will get it all in. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ one too many...

[ male announcer ] it's time to reclaim your garage. the all-new passat. the 2012 motor trend car of the year. ♪ seek your way and go my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪

people comment on my weight all the time. and they comment on yours. >> yep. >> is it ever hurtful to you? >> not anymore. i think it hurt me a lot when i was younger.

but i kind of think now i've developed a bit of a shell about it. because it's been talked about so much. i don't like being overweight. i know i'd be healthier and better off if i weren't. >> feel better, move better. >> all of it. all of it. >> how long have you struggled with your weight? >> my whole life. >> chris christie talking to oprah winfrey about that topic. his weight. i love him for doing that. i hope he continues to do that and helps a lot of people in the process. because there are a lot of people in his situation. let's continue the conversation. john ridley is still with us in los angeles, suze orman, mike barnicle on the set. joining us now a special adviser for the white house office of management and budget and the chairman of the department of medical ethics and health policy at the university of pennsylvania, dr. ezekiel emanuel. >> nice to be here. >> good to have you on. you're going to be running

around the mall this morning. is there a reason? >> yes, we're trying to get doctors to talk to their patients about the affordable care act and how health care reform is going to help them. there's a lot of ignorance out there in the public, a lot of the public feels uninformed about the health care reform law. so we're trying to get doctors to discuss it with them. and for doctors to learn more about it because that will be helpful too. >> we've been having kind of a contentious debate about medicare and other programs. it's obviously going to be one of the big debates of the presidential race. but mitt romney has his own angle on this having done what he did, dr. sachs in massachusetts. >> so i actually do think that joe had an important point which is medicare and medicaid are critical to the future fiscal stability of the federal government. and we do need to get their costs under control. we do need to get health care

under control for the whole country because it's 17%, 18%, 19% of gdp, it's too much. i do think that the important element there is to change how we're paying doctors and to make doctors focus more on being efficient, delivering continuity of care, and integrated care for patients, especially sick patients who are the most expensive part of the system. that's the change we need. and this argument about health insurance companies and other stuff is not necessarily going to be that helpful. >> joe, jump in. >> yeah, i was just wondering, doctor, one of the great frustrations really is for anybody that has studied this as long as you have. >> yeah. >> the united states pays more money for health care for its people than any other country in the world. >> by a long shot. >> and yet we still -- by a long shot. it's the same thing with education. per capita we spend more money on education than any country on the planet by a long shot. and yet there's such

inefficiencies. how do you take that reality? and then take the reality that dr. sachs keeps bringing up about doctors? how do you -- how do we make this a more efficient system while getting a buy in from the doctors on the front lines that deliver the services. >> i think doctors are ready to change, and i think they understand the system cannot continue. not all of them at the same rate. but i do think in the current system we basically pay doctors to do things. so a doctor, a surgeon say earns money by operating, a doctor in my field in oncology makes money by giving chemotherapy or by testing people and ordering more tests and more procedures. so you have to change that incentive. we have to incentivize doctors to keep people healthy. and the current system doesn't do that. we cannot -- we have to

transition to give doctors more of -- we're going to say, look, we're going to look at how well you keep these patients healthy, how much you keep them out of the hospital. and that, i think, is the key transition that we have to make in this country. and it's not going to -- it's not something you can do overnight. but there are many parts of the affordable care act that incentivize that change and frankly, there are things we can do more. >> we're talking a lot of different things here. mike barnicle and then dr. sachs. >> i want to ask you about something i call the culture of higher expectations that we all are a part of. we always want more and we want it now. when it comes to medicine and the cost of medicine, and i myself have been guilty of this in the recent past. you want the latest test, you want them to use the latest machine, most expensive machine. how does that factor into the rising cost of health care? and how can we address it if it does? >> well, that expectation and patient demand factors in with

the fact that doctors make money to exceeding to the demands and giving patients those advance tests even when they make no difference. and i think this is the important thing. no one is talking about or should be talking about cutting medical treatments that work, that really are effective for patien patients. but we're paying for a lot of stuff that's not proven to be better or is proven not to be better. and i wrote a couple of weeks ago in the new yorks times about therapy for prostate cancer not proven to be better. costs medicare about twice as much as regular treatment. and there are a long list of such items. and we have to start by stopping to pay money for that. then you'll have different -- a change in attitude on patients but also on doctors. doctors will begin to say that's no better than the regular treatment i have to offer to you. and i think that change where the doctor makes a recommendation not based on how much money they're making, but

based on the science is going to be a really important change in our system. >> let's zoom out. dr. sachs, before we close, let's round out the segment with your trip you took recently to ghana with bono that pertains to health care in a different way. >> yeah, great to see you. >> nice to see you, jeff. >> you're right about getting those costs down. b bono and i were in ghana last week. we visited a hospital with no treatment for aids, no medicines -- and today it was beautiful. i wanted to get your voice on america's commitment to the global fund to fight td and malaria. that we stand behind that organization. bono and i saw lives being saved before our eyes. an amazing transformation over the course of a decade. >> as i've written, i think one of the great bargains in the western world is our global

health assistance for a whole series of diseases, hiv/aids, one, tb, malaria, better care for mothers delivering babies, better immunization. and i think when i worked in the white house, i strongly fought for a bigger portfolio for the global health initiative of the president. and it really does make a difference. we are making a huge difference overseas with that aid. and we are leading the world in this. and it's brought us a lot of positive feelings in africa especially. >> and joe, real quick. >> yeah, i just want to go to suze orman really quickly. we've been talking about the u.s. spending more money on medical care than any other country on the planet. i hate to sound like a one-trick pony this morning, but i'm sorry, it has to do with the free market. when you've got the medical consumer separated from what is

provided by the medical provider and insurance companies and third party payers and the federal government. all of these things involved, it's no wonder that it is a remarkably inefficient system. >> well, i want to answer this, but i can tell you, jeff sachs has something to say to you. go on, he's like bursting to tell you. >> all right, dr. sachs. >> joe, the rest of the high-income world has a public system at half the cost sand better outcomes. >> jeff, no one has a public system for 310 million people and we're not moving to a public system. >> i know we're not. i know we're not. >> we need to deal with our -- >> i was just reporting what others do. >> okay. >> jeffrey, i understand that you're an economist that has contempt for the free market system -- >> no --

>> no contempt. >> no, i -- i'm joking with you there. but i -- i don't think it is a coincidence that we spend more money on health care than any other country by a long shot and outcomes have nothing to do with payment. that's what the free enterprise system does. all i'm saying -- i'm not saying that we go to a complete fee for services system at all. i'm saying, we've got to figure out a way to have doctors know. you're going to be rewarded for outcomes, not for procedures. >> we're in agreement. >> of course we are. i love you, jeffrey. i love you. and i love zeek too. >> and i want to talk about the movies. >> and we've got a movie to talk to ridley about. >> i've checked it off. we've got chris christie, we've got health, dr. sachs, now we need to get to ridley. dr. ezekiel emanuel, thank you. [ male announcer ] this black history month,

you can make a difference. ♪ i give new generations better opportunities. ♪ i protect the lives that make up my community. ♪ i'm discovering ways to improve our quality of life. [ male announcer ] history made its mark. make yours. at&t continues to support the spirit of individuals making a difference with at&t 28 days get involved today. ♪

lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro.

♪ we've got to stand up and you are me. we've got to stand up, if we're going to be free. we've got to stand up... ♪ if we're gonna be free ♪ if you want it you got it if you want it... you got it. i believe. ♪ you got to believe i believe. ♪ believe in yourself i believe. i am strong. i finally lost weight. i finally lost weight. ♪ if you want it you got it believe. believe. you just gotta believe. i can overcome anything. i believe. join for free. weight watchers. believe. because it works.

what was your question? >> what we do. how well we do it. does it matter? >> and you all thought what? you'd sign up, get shiny boots, a uniform, and that would be the end of 100 years of bigotry. you're colored men in a white man's army.

any of you feel otherwise, any of you want to wash yourselves out, please do so. i'll have you on the next thing smoking back home to make room for the men who want to stand and fight. >> that's cuba gooding jr. in the new film "red tails" written by mr. john ridley. john, i remember you telling us about a year ago you were working on this movie with george lucas and how excited you were about it. but it was a long road getting this thing on the screen. talk about that a little bit. >> it was a very long road, willie. and it was long for george. george has been wanting to do this movie for 20 years. and part of it was finding the right story, the right way to tell it, the right way to get into it. and obviously a guy like george lucas wanted to put people in a fighter plane, a p-51 and get the sense of what it was like to

be 19 years old -- some of these guys, you know, had their civilian pilots license, some had never driven cars, what it was like being 19 and flying against the best air force at that time. so for george, it was a long time. i think honestly when i met you guys when i started working with you, i'd been working on this project for four years. it's been a long time coming, but when you see this film, visually what it represents, emotionally what it represents. it's an amazing piece of work. and it's really as well as a history lesson an entertaining one, as well. >> you know, john, there was a white house screening of the movie on friday. did you go? >> i didn't make the cut. >> really? >> what? >> despite the fact, four years of my life, i did not make the cut. i could handle that, my wife did not. that didn't go down very well. >> tell us about these guys, though. these tuskegee airmen.

you had these guys who did not even have rights in the country they were fighting giving their lives for that country. >> well, it's in some ways a very personal story. my uncle was a tuskegee airman. back in those days we're talking the '30s and '40s, of course the war started in 1939, '40 when we got in, the military was segregated. blacks were not allowed to fight, not allowed to fight along white soldiers, but back then, everyone wanted to get into the fight. they understood what it was about. it wasn't just about civil rights. it was about freedom and democracy across the board. and if we didn't win, the things others wanted were not going to exist at all. these guys, it was called the double victory. fighting for rights at home and fighting the fight overseas. the tuskegee institute was where

they trained. but the red tails program was when they were activated in italy. it's not just agitating for civil rights and the theoretical concepts of what they could do, this is when men actually went in to action and fought. and that's what makes this film so exciting. >> and it looks great. as you said, a great story, but visually, as well, when you bring george lucas into it. "red tails" is in theaters on january 20th. great to see you. talk to you soon. comingi up, the super pac primary. the war of words in south carolina and what all the flood of that money in ads means for the general election. keep it on "morning joe."

♪[music plays] ♪[music plays] when you're responsible for this much of the team... you need a car you can count on. ♪[music plays] nyquil tylenol: we are?ylenol. you know we're kinda like twins. nyquil (stuffy): yeah, we both relieve coughs, sneezing, aches, fevers. tylenol: and i relieve nasal congestion. nyquil (stuffy): overachiever. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't.

one golden crown. come on frank how long have we known each other? go to e-trade. they got killer tools man. they'll help you nail a retirement plan that's fierce. two golden crowns. you realize the odds of winning are the same as being mauled by a polar bear and a regular bear in the same day? frank! oh wow, you didn't win? i wanna show you something... it's my shocked face. [ gasps ] ♪ [ male announcer ] get a retirement plan that works at e-trade.

so what you do is you'd have a fundraiser, 8 or 10 friends say hey, can you bring in 8 or 10 friends.

dick cheney would come and we'd have a bunch of whiskey and peanuts at somebody's house and see how many we could attract at $2,500 a head. what is nice and convenient is the ability to give unlimited amounts where it's a lot easier than doing a fundraiser which are headaches. >> there you go. we're going to be talking more about this. joining us now, special correspondent for rock center with brian williams. ted koppel. and from washington, we have nbc news correspondent who covers capitol hill, of course, luke russert, as well. ted, do you remember when i was your intern on "nightline?" >> how could i forget. katie couric was my intern. >> that's your way of saying -- >> if only i had succeeded the way my -- >> i was forgettable. i want to hear what you found, but before i just want to say i'm hearing from sources about jon huntsman's speech today when he officially steps down, he's going to be calling for an end

of the negativity and the super pacs, as well. >> well, you know, all the candidates are on the surface. they're all saying -- >> against it. >> these super pacs are surface this superpacs are determining the course of the election. if you think the superpac,s are -- he told me by the end of the campaign, they expect to have spent 300 to 3$350 million and santorum went literally whoa. he can't compete against that. no one can compete against that. >> ted, can you pull back the

curtain on this force? romney on this show saying i had nothing to do with the super pac. you had former staffers working for these pacs. >> they don't have to, the people that are running romney's super pac are his former funds director, these are people who know exactly what is is required during a campaign. they don't have to be on the phone saying governor, what do you want us to do next? and you have mitt romney talking about the super pac.

gingrich is saying, i'm going to tell them to correct the errors and i'm going to tell them if necessary to take it off the air. >> damage is done. >> and they're not listening to it anyway. >> you're walking around capitol hill, covering both sides of the senate and -- the amount of time they have to spend on the phone raising money rather than talking about real issues? >> that's a huge complaint on capitol hill, mike. especially from freshman members, guys who first get there, half their time is spent on the time begging and begging and begging for money to be re-electi re-electire reele reelected. and a lot of people aren't talking about congressional elections, but they'll definitely have an influence. the in fact that when the supreme court decision came out,

saying they could have unlimited disclosures. a lot of these groups haven't filled out a disclosure since july. so when you haven't had donors disclosed in july, that is a lot of ambiguity for the american people to handle in this type of fundraising and it has a lot of people on capitol hill worried about the future if they ever get on the wrong side of these donors. >> it's a game that's sort of unwinnable if you're got is super pacs. >> you can contribute in january or february in some of these races and you don't have to report until the end of the month.

one thing that the super pacs do allow candidates to do is get out on the campaign trail without dialing for dollars five, six, seven, eight hours a day just bautecause the checks bigger. >> the money that's being spent by the super pacs is roughly 2-1 to the money that was being raised in campaigns. if you like what you're seeing now, you're going to love what you see in the general election. the negative campaigning is going to be a joy to behold. >> 10:00 eastern, ted. >> ted koppel's piece on iraq was the best journalism in 2011. congratulations, sir. >> i'll say thank you for ted, it was washington, ted.

>> why would i remember some stunning tall blond working in my office. why would i remember that? >>. could be the obama administration's best hope for ending the war in afghanistan. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i have copd. if you have it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.

tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? ask your doctor if spiriva can help. it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick.

♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪ named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

coming up a live report from italy where there's a desperate

search under way for survivors. ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪ ♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪ ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪ ♪ if you're a mobile type on the go ♪ ♪ i suggest you take a tip from my bro ♪ ♪ and download the app that lets you know ♪ ♪ at free-credit-score-dot-com now let's go. ♪ vo: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. a farewell long awaited. goodnight, stuffy. goodnight, outdated. goodnight old luxury and all of your wares. goodnight bygones everywhere. [ engine turns over ] good morning, illumination.

good morning, innovation. good morning unequaled inspiration. [ male announcer ] the audi a8, chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan in a recent comparison test.

all your important legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business... protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com, we put the law on your side.

♪ good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast as we take a live look at new york city. chilly day, back with us on set, we have tena brown, mike barnicle, dr. jeffrey saks.

jon huntsman expected to make that formal announcement today where he'll throw his support behind mitt romney. he had a disappointing fundraising last month. joe, what's your take on huntsman pulling out? >> well, you know, i wouldn't call 17% disappointing in new hampshire. he needed to do better to move forward, but even if he had gotten into the 20s, even if he had gotten in second place there. the fact of the matter was he wasn't going to get the bump he needed to get back to south carolina s great irony of this race is, if you believe "the wall street journal," if you believe eric ericson, if you believe george will, jon

huntsman was the most conservative candidate in this case. if i were in jon huntsman place, i would probably get out today as well. its much better that you leave with 17 percent in new hampshire and you're now known to the party and you can prepare for 2016 than losing in south carolina with single digits, losing in florida with single digits. now seems to be the best time for him to get out of the race. i will just tell you on a personal note, because he is one of the few true conservatives in this race. we are now left with big government conservatives. >> i thought he would have really added to the conversation, but it didn't take off. and willie geist, one of the reasons for what happened was ultimately what was happening at the end which is an important way too early is that he was being outpolled for the daily show or "the colbert report," which doesn't hop.

. >> it wasn't going to be pretty in south carolina, we have got the latest ppp poll, you've got romney in first place, john paul in third percent and now he bows out. at 11:00 eastern time he will have a news conference and throw his support behind mitt romney. >> his father wasn't going to throw in $10 million for him to go on to south carolina and florida. watching huntsman progression, since he came back from china, the way the media treated him, he was treated as this is a fairly liberal republican, a moderate republican who can take on barack obama and yet huntsman played into that for a few months and then tried to back

track, no, i'm actually really conservative. either you're really conservative or you're a moderate republican. >> he's such a carnivorous game, he never was able to show those kind of teeth that you need. >> it was tough coming back from china. the american research group poll shows romney and gingrich on top, ron paul in third with 20% and rick perry in fourth with 9%. but a new poll that's being considered an outlier, shows a close three-way race for second place. reuters has ron paul and rick santorum tied at 16%, followed by gingrich with 12 and john huntsman with three.

rick gingrich and santorum --. >> if romney wins here, we has an enormous advantage going forward which is why i think it's important for every conservative who wants to have a conservative come knee he can rally around. >> we need to get this eventually down to a conservative alternative to mitt romney and those two, when we finally get matched up and we believe it will be us. when we get matched up and you look at some of the polls that have been done in other states down the road, we match up very well and are ahead with governor romney, we feel like once we get it down to a two-person race, we

have an excellent up opportunity to win south carolina. >> he was making it quite clear in a veiled way that the bain capital story, that mitt romney -- he was finding his own way to really jab admit romney for what kind of person he is. so we're bringing it up in a backhanded way, still going after him strong. >> it's fascinating, it's absolutely fascinated, newt launches an attack that separates him not only from a conservative base but most of the republican party, but yet if you put that reuters poll aside, and i would recommend that you do because the other polls are more in line from what i'm hearing from people in south carolina, including romney's own team. this is a close race, nobody knows who's going to finish out in front. you have in ppp poll, and you

have the american research poll, you have ron paul in the 20s, santorum not far behind. there's going to be a lot of movement and one thing that hasn't sunk in from over the weekend, was the endorsement of evangelicals, from one of the most powerful evangelicals in america. that's going to have a big impact on this rice as well. but i want to go back really quickly to something that tina said about jon huntsman and then we'll leave that story behind. jon huntsman, ideal logically, if you look at his record, jon huntsman was the most conservative republican in this race, bar none. but because he had a moderate temperament like another guy named ronald reagan, he was not seen as being conservative enough.

because he didn't call barack obama a marxist or a fascist on a social us, he was deemed unworthy, as not hating enough to be a true conservative. if that is how the republican party defines conservative in 2012, then they are turned their backs not only on ronald reagan, but also on leaders like jeb bush and mitch daniel. but please, this guy was not liberal enough to lose the nomination. >> enough of a hater to win. i think that's right what joe said. i do think the bain capital, to move to the beginning rgingrich aspect. he is going to win in the end, but it's certainly giving unbelievable fodder to obama when he starts to run.

it's the worst possible thing that can happen to a company now, is that a former executive runs for office. we saw this with the rose law firm. you saw this with halliburton. it should be a retrospective firing offense to run for public office. >> we have to free and fair about that and not spill our coffee. i'm going to get to you next, but first i'm going to go to rev rechbd al. >> it's usually joe who's messy. >> david axelrod is taking -- hammering mitt romney for his time running the investment firm bain capital. >> the question isn't should he be businessman of the year. the question is what is his character, what was hiss judgment, how does that relate to being president and are there legitimate questions who should be asked. >> people should know before

they vote because the presidency is such a central position in our society that you want to know what does this person think? what are they doing and what values will they bring to the oval office? >> the reason that his work at bain is an issue is that governor romney has offered his big experience as his sole credential for being president of the united states. the truth is that he closed 1,000 or more factories, stores and offices, he outsourced tens of thousands of jobs. the question is that the philosophy that you want in the white house? is that the economic vision you want for this country, outsourcing, lowering benefits, i don't think that's the future for this country. >> i can't help myself. but it is absolutely stunning and just beyond to watch newt gingrich say these questions are

important and that he needs to answer them because it really tells you something about how he does business and his more compass. are is there legitimate reasons that romney can -- >> this issue will be with us for a while, though i don't think it's going to resonate in the republican primaries and i don't think it's going to be resonate coming from the historian at fannie mae. it's not only what bain capital did or didn't do, but he really has taken a extremely conservative ideology into this race. and i think it's an ideology that's going to turn out to be so far from the right of center, he's going to have a very hard

time scrambling back and his personal record is going to play in this. >> reverend al, would you agree with that? and joe, you're next. >> i definitely agree with that, i think the fact is that david axelrod had it right, he's the one that put out his experience as a businessman, these are the credentials he's running on. he could have easily have run based on his record in massachusetts, he chose not to do that. so therefore he makes it fair game for people to use that as the gauge or the determining factor as to what he would be as president. he's set the territory, now he's got to live with that. i think it is probably not beyond laughing that newt gingrich would raise it. but mr. romney is the one that raiseded his platform. i agree with joe for once on mr.

huntsman. i think that huntsman is very conservative. but because he had worked for president obama, i think it was very hard for him to convince the republican electorate that he was conservative and much of this campaign so far for the nomination, has been so anti-obama and who praised obama. >> the attacks on romney by his rivals that are being feasted on by the white house and anybody who's still supporting the president, are they fair? >> well, i don't know whether they're fair or not, i don't think he know enough about bain capital. i think in the next six months we'll learn a lot more about bain capital. we have had the first folly of attacks of bain capital.

there are some things that have been debunked by the washington journal, by the "new york times." mitt romney has been able to push those aside and the fact of the matter is that his attackers have been the ones that have basically been caught telling deliberate untruths against mitt romney. going forward, this is loalso a guy who won as a populist and who campaigned as a populist. i think they even show him to be even more detached from business and even more detached from the free market than people perceive him now. i'm just talking pure politics. i'm just analyzing this, you look at every poll and you ask americans across this nation who do you trust the least? big government or big business? big government wins that 3-1.

and if this race comes down to a battle between free enterprise as mitt romney would frame it versus barack obama's big government, mitt romney wins that fight every time. there are a lot of inherent dangers here that democrats don't see. because of their ideological preconditions and whether they are fair or not, i'm just saying, this is a dangerous path to tread and if mitt romney knows how to bat it away, it ends up working for him in the long run. >> coming up in the united states, we're going to bring in staff writer for the new yorker, steve cole, he went from living in trialer parks to leading one of the biggest restaurant chains in the world. ceo of yum! brands.

plus, how does that happen? the very latest on the capsized cruise ship off the coast of italy and the captain who jumped ship while his passengers scrambled for their lives. it's an unbelievable stormy first let's go to bill karins for a check on the forecast. >> so far, let's be honest, this has been a pretty snowless winter for many of us. yesterday we got know in places that don't get a lot. from seattle all the way to portland, it's going to be the best chance for snow. so what's going to happen next? another storm moves into the northwest this. one a big one tuesday into wednesday, cascades are going to -- i think seattle is going to get three to six inches of snow. as far as the forecast goes in the east, just another cold day,

but later on tonight, we've go snow and ice from scranton to albany, those areas will deal with a rough tuesday morning commute. once again that warm air heading for the east coast in the days ahead. that's a cold shot over new york city, currently 17 degrees. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] lately, there's been a seismic shift in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600.

how's that for common sense? you can make a difference. ♪ i give new generations better opportunities. ♪ i protect the lives that make up my community. ♪ i'm discovering ways to improve our quality of life. [ male announcer ] history made its mark. make yours. at&t continues to support the spirit of individuals making a difference with at&t 28 days get involved today. ♪ it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick.

♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪

welcome back. 22 past the hour, we have mike

barnicle with. and suze orman joins us. we need to ask about the approved card. you are entering an industry that may not necessarily embrace what you're doing with this card. tell us about it. >> here's the thing, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, middle class in my opinion have disappeared. the face of the poor is the old face of the middle class. they're educated they just can't make money. if all you ever want to do is spend money on a debit card or spend money in cash that does not report to the credit bureau. you won't have a score, if you don't have a score, employers won't employ. -- why it's purple, take red and blue, it makes purple. you go to the approved card.com, you'll find information.

essentially here's what i'm doing for the first time in history, a prepaid card is going to be sharing information with trance union, one of the major credit bureaus in the united states today. over the next 18 to 24 months, transunion will be evaluating that information. they will be able to decide does behavior on a credit card create a fico score and i hope the answer is yes. >> there are cards like this out there, but they have different fee structures. >> normally the prepaid card industry is a sleazy industry, it's how everybody thinks about it. i can kind of agree with that. i decided i'm going to start to change that industry. because i didn't want to be attached to a bank per se, a retail bank. because i personally think if real estate doesn't come back, banks are going to be hit hard. i don't think that real estate

is going to come back this year. banks are going to be forced to charge more fees on their checking account, where their -- i control the fees, i'm the only one who funded the card, so the approved card, i am hoping changes how people do things. >> how does that card differ from like an ordinary bank debit card. >> a bank debit card is attached to a checking account. if you bounce one, two, or three checks, there's the checks system, you can't go to a bank and get a checking account. a prepaid card is very simple. you get the card, you then ask your employer to deposit money directly on this account. if you do have a bank account, you have them deposit on this

account. you get free identity theft protection, you get free transunion credit reports, credit reports and unlimited credit monitoring, you can use it at any atm to withdraw money for free, it should cost you no more than $3 a month. you can. >> you can put up to $10,000 on this card for fraud protection. they little bit you to $250 a day on spending on this. there are different emergency funds will be on here. i would also like to put a retirement account on this, you get my education, i keep you informed. every time you swipe it, you get a text saying, you just spent $50, you have 25 left. >> america's money class tonight, on the oprah winfrey network, at the end of the sixth class, we're on the second

tonight, you are going to win $50,000 simply by passing a test. and five people will win $5,000 each. we have to go book to school and learn about money all over again, because what's true today was not true years ago. go back to school so you can really use me or you can watch me tonight. >> i love suze orman, she's good. i want to see what's going to happen with that card. fraught with risk in some ways for you to put yourself out there. must be worth something. i'm going to try it. >> i'm going to change the system that's been ruining many people's lives in america. >> the money class here in paper back and the show on the oprah winfrey network at 9:00 p.m. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation,

so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates. but think about your heart. 2% has over half the saturated fat of whole milk. want to cut back on fat and not compromise on taste? try smart balance fat free milk. it's what you'd expect from the folks at smart balance. [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks...

♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... [ soldier ] move out! [ male announcer ] ...without their even knowing it. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. just a second. just, just one second. ♪ what are you looking at? don't look up there. why are you looking up? ♪ get outta the car. get outta the car. ♪ are you ok? the... get in the car. get in the car! [ male announcer ] the epa estimated 42 mpg highway chevy cruze eco. from spending time together, to spending your lives together, chevy runs deep.

welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, president of the new america foundation and staff writer at the new yorker, steve cole. in the latest issue of the new yorker steve explores whether the united states will be able to deal with the leader of the taliban. first of all, what is his

current role with the taliban? what is his level. >> he's their leader. he's kind of a mystery as to where he is and what he actually does every day. he issues a lot of statements under his name or somebody does. most of the taliban who work for him believe he's in pakistan and he's under house arrest by the pakistanis. they think maybe the pakistanis are speak for him some of the time. i guess what is the concept behind, what is the message that we should receive in terms of your looking at him being negotiated with? how are we supposed to take that. >> for the last year the united states has been trying to figure out whether talking to the taliban whether getting out of afghanistan would contribute to their security. those talks are advancing, they have decided to open the office

for the taliban the qatar, where the taliban leaders or negotiators could go to talk to the united states. he's really their unquestioned leader. there's not a lot of dissent among the taliban that he's in charge. >> how does the concept that here you have a crime boss under house protection in pakistan, how does that differ from the united states and pakistan and the taliban in the middle? >> many of the taliban leaders themselves want actually independence so that they can negotiate on their own without in effect being clients of the ma pakista pakistanis. the pakistanis want a negotiation that serves their interest as the united states

pulls out of afghanistan. the pakistanis are very cautious about getting involved in this. they would rather bide their time and wait for the americans to go and then do what serves them best. >> in your repeated trips to afghanistan, have you noticed any improvement despite our input both financial and the human cost? >> where american troops go, they can improve security, americans can control any ground they want in afghanistan, they have taken control of sections of helmand and kandahar province. but the question is, is this durable? are these games that could be transferred to an afghan government. i think this last trip to kandahar, the united states had real doubts about that -- they see the announcement that americans are on their way out, four or five years from now, is this going to be any different than it was?

>> what's the end game to talking to the taliban? what does the united states see at the end of a conversation with the taliban? aallow us to leave sooner? >> some people think that these negotiations are likely not to produce anything at all. sometimes when you're talking, you can change the equation in a war. you reduce violence, you create a new dynamic and that helps reduce violence. there's a sort of middle ground view that wie. the most grandiose view would be to make a settlement. convert into a political party and join parliament, take part in elections and lay down their weapons. now the chances of that actually happening in the next three or four years given the record of the taliban's view about compromise over the last 15

years, is, i think questionable. but that is one version of the goal. >> the northern ireland approach. >> there are conflicts that have ended differently. >> if there is mystery around what his actual role is and what he does, is it -- what's the point of talking to him if you don't really know whether he holds the power. >> right now, they're trying to find credible people who can speak for him, is he prepared to compromise? is the converse to peaceful politics at all plausible? >> since he's hidden, he's been living in exile. he's subject really to targeting by american military forces, if he were to emerge from hiding, right now he wouldn't have any

personal guarantees that he would been struck by a drone. so to get to a point where you could establish negotiations in an atmosphere of mutual confidence about real subjects that would improve the situation in afghanistan, which i mean reduce violence, create stability. that's going to take step by step some time. whether he would ever emerge from the shadows to participate? i have no idea. >> steve cole's article is in the new issue of the new yorker. up next an investigation into that deadly cruise ship disaster, we're back in just a moment. ♪ there's a place i dream about ♪

♪ where the sun never goes out ♪

♪ and the sky is deep and blue ♪ ♪ won't you take me american flight 280 to miami is now ready for boarding. ♪ there with you fly without putting your life on pause. be yourself. nonstop. american airlines.

welcome back to "morning joe," the owner of that cruise ship is blaming human error for the devastating accident that claimed against six lives. michelle kozinsky is there. >> reporter: when you look at those pictures, how does something like that happen on that scale? and the captain was arrested, under investigation. just this morning, his company says he made an unauthorized deviation in the course of the ship, brought it too close to shore, then made mistakes in handling it. also investigators now say that he himself was on shore while passengers were still scrambling to get off that ship. this was friday night and the latest rescue from on board was yesterday. the pictures emerging from the

costa concordia, screaming for themselves and just after, passengers experienced a loud grumble, a shake and a very reassuring announcement. >> the calm lasted about as long as the lights did. >> people were passing out, people were getting nervous, people were having kpes pains. i was having anxiety because i didn't know whapt v what happens halving. >> we were dangling above the water with the lifeboats probably for another hour before they even released them. >> waiting one to two hours on a swiftly sinking ship. >> when we actually got into the water, we couldn't get away from the ship because it kept towing in. >> many finally just jumped into the cold, black water. >> they were saying that it was

just an electrical problem, but it wasn't. we saw the big rock outside. . >> reporter: the rock that ripped a 150-foot gash in the hull. five people are missing, including we now know were americans. and the company run by carnival, there may have been significant human error. the captain appears not to have followed coastal procedures. he was arrested for questioning under suspicion of manslaughter and abandoning ship. days after the disaster, rescuers keep looking. this man, the ship's percenter was found on board just yesterday afternoon. this honeymooning couple saturday night. but searchers also found the bodies of two elderly men, 120 americans were on board. families from all over the

country headed home with some awful memories. they never dreamed possible. >> it was virtually a scene from the titanic. it was very -- it felt like we were doing the actual scene, it was surreal. >> reporter: sometimes cruise ships sort of buzz the coastline, they come close, sound the horn to the delight of tourists. we don't know if that's what happened, but the captain has defended his actions so far. the biggest fast food chains in the world, david novak. we'll be right back. [ jennifer garner ] there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there. but one is so clever that your skin looks better even after you take it off. neutrogena® healthy skin liquid makeup. 98% saw improved skin. does your makeup do that? neutrogena® cosmetics.

with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaids, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines, including those for migraine and while on cymbalta, call right away if you have high fever, confusion and stiff muscles or serious allergic skin reactions like blisters, peeling rash, hives, or mouth sores to address possible life-threatening conditions. talk about your alcohol use, liver disease

and before you reduce or stop cymbalta. dizziness or fainting may occur upon standing. ask your doctor about cymbalta. imagine you with less pain. cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. premier of the packed bag. you know organization is key... and so is having a trusted assistant. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above and still pay the mid-size price. here we are... [ male announcer ] and there you go, business pro. there you go. go national. go like a pro. there you go. i've tried it. but nothing helped me beat my back pain. then i tried salonpas. it's powerful relief that works at the site of pain and lasts up to 12 hours. salonpas.

joining us now is david novak, he is known for starting -- taking people with you. the only way to make big things happen. >> i just want to read a little something about david because it's very impressive. once lived in 32 trailer parks by the time he reached 7th

grade. he sold encyclopedias door to door, with the hopes of maybe one day becoming a creative director. >> how did that happen? what's the secret to your success? >> i have had great leaders take me under their wing and teach me and i just been very blessed in that regard. >> did you know from an early age, did you -- do you have a feeling that you were destined to bigger things? >> to be honest with you t only thing i wanted to lead something one day, i didn't know what it was going to be. i just happened to get into a business i love, i love people, i live food. we have 1.4 million people. >> i'm in the wrong business, i love people and food as well. >> we're always looking for good leaders, joe. >> did you have -- you have brothers and sisters? >> yeah, i have two sisters?

>> were they both from an early age also sort of a hit with this drive for success? >> both my sisters, they're doing well and i'm really proud of them. it's funny, the biggest house we lived in was eight feet by 40 feet long, a trail, it doesn't matter how big a house you have, we just clump together and silt on the couch. >> what is the secret? when did you know that you wanted to be a lead zpler i always liked being a leader. it would be tough sitting back watching somebody else give the speech. you want to be in control, in the sense that you're making all the decisions, but you're in control of your destiny, that you can build the culture that you like, if you're the leader, the only person you can look at if you don't have results is yourself, you have to look in the mirror. if you're not getting results today, you have to look in the mirror.

>> nothing i enjoy more than sitting next to a preacher listening to another preacher because they fidget. >> ever's leg just kept doing this. couldn't stand it. whether you're running a football team, or whether you're running a business, you have to get people on your team to invest in your dream, to invest in your vision. how do you get that and what's the key? >> a real simple rule is that if you have no involvement, you have no commitment. a great leader has got to get the leaders together. to get the reality of the business from the customers, employe

employees, the -- it's amazing when you start out with the same knowledge base, everybody will usually gravitate toward the fact that these are the things that we can do to move the business forward. >> i want to talk about the health about this. >> i'm shocked. i can't believe this. >> your restaurants are kfc, pizza hut and taco bell. >> they're great, not only are they great, can i just say this right now, they're great for you. >> oh, yeah. >> i mean seriously, you look at most olympic athletes they will tell you taco bell, kfc -- i mean seriously. >> it's the holy trinity. >> in my experience these are the restaurants that have played into the nation's obesity crisis. what do you think your company should do or is doing to try and transform the way america eats while still maintaining a business that is successful. >> first of all we're very proud of the food we make, it's dli s

delicious. when is the last time you had a bad time around a pizza. mika what we're doing is we have provided a lot of balanced choices. >> when you go to kcf, you can have grilled chicken, green beans and a biscuit even for around 400 calories. if you look at food consumed and 75% of it is at home. if you took kfc, pizza hut, taco bell and -- look for somebody to blame when the bottom line is you're accountable for what you do. nobody tells me to exercise and i have to decide whether i want four soft drinks a day or a bag of tostitos.

>> if i drive through kfc, i'm going to get the grilled chicken. but if i have had a bad day, if i'm exhausted. if i need some comforted food, i'm going to order the kentucky fried chicken. don't take that option away from me, because that's none of your business. >> i'm not asking to take it away from you. i just want to know what level of responsibility you think your company bears, if you did some studies on who bought what, you would find differences in the levels of society. >> our responsibility is to listen and respond to the voice of our customers. our customers today are telling us they love our food, but they also want to have healthier

options. our purchase cycle at kfc in the united states is once every 60 days, one of the reasons why is that people are cutting bang on fried foods. our obligation is to griffin people the options of what they want. people still like our fried chicken. it's like you, joe, when you want to have that comfort food, there's no place that there's better to go. but we eliminate the veto factor that i don't want to have fried, i want to have grilled. at taco bell, we have some deliberation items. i brought this for you. the other thing is you can have this kentucky grilled chicken. i don't know if you're allowed to take gifts like this. you can go to taco bell, you can have three fresco soft chicken. i only recommended two if you're on a diet. and at pizza hut, just go and

have a good time. you can have a veggie lovers pizza or you can ask them to cut back, we'll take a little bit of the cheese off for you, we'll work for you. >> can i ask a question? do you have a gold card for a life sometime supply of fridayed chicken for me? >> the book "taking people with you" by dave kovac. >> it's your source for protein. -good morning, dave. -good morning, dave. dave. -hey, dave. -hey, dave. hey. -hey, dave. -mr. dave. -dave. -what's up, dave? -dave. -dave. dave.

dave. dave? hi, dave. oh, dave's looking for you. hey, dave. yo, dave! [ male announcer ] in a small business, it's all you. that's why you have us. at staples, we have low prices on everything your small business needs. staples. that was easy. it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪

my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com, we put the law on your side. you can make a difference. ♪ i give new generations better opportunities. ♪ i protect the lives that make up my community.

♪ i'm discovering ways to improve our quality of life. [ male announcer ] history made its mark. make yours. at&t continues to support the spirit of individuals making a difference with at&t 28 days get involved today. ♪